◆ SpookStack

ce a eee tee att haath pte ae Die gt retin le . woe tee . a emianbend ap en ng a Continued from page I nD told me at one staze he had been on the telephone with his employers}. © . After Philby said that he worked for the K G B I tock the opportunity to make my position clear: 1 did not propose to con- duct a formal interview in the sense of asking him a set of questions, but that I held myself free to write an account of our. ‘mecling al some subsequent time; and that 1 did not think there wags any point in our devating the merits or other- wise af Communism, or in my offering him any comments on the career he had chosen. He said in repty thal he would assume that it was possible thet 1 worked for some Western Intelligence service. (He subse- quently said: “T nalurally took prerautions anainst any rough stufl—you would mot have got icn yatds down the street."} But he acemed, at the time, quile relaxed. We met subsequently at & AuMmber of restaurants i nated by Philby. During these Jong Russian meats vodka, wine and brandy flowed [rfeely, and Philby talked lengthy, even compulsively. Ile is clearly 2 sociable type of drinker and he secms to have an iron head, 1 could detect no change in his piettness or joviality as the waiters arrived with relays of 300 grammes of vodka or 600 grammes of Armenian brandy. The conversations which fol- low took place in no particular order, and I present them with- out further comment of my cwn. Gerald Brooke and the Krogers. Philby raised this sub- ject himself, spontaneously. “There was an interesting sug: gestion in The Economist,” he said. “The idea was that I would be prepared to withdraw my manuscript if the Krogers were exchanged fag Brooke. If that were in fact a condition of the Krogers being released, of course 1 would withdraw my book.” I asked, “Is thet # messafe for someone? Do you want that passed on?” Phitby replied. “No, it was just an idea T had 1 asked, " Why are you 50 anxi| ous 10 make this exchange wit the Krogers?” i Philby: “ Our position is that the Krogers are innocent of the charges on which they were convicted. They were personal, not political friends of Gordon Lonsdale. We don't dispute that people like Gordon and Colonel Abel were our agents, highly killed professionals, but we cannot egree that the Krogers were the top-level azents they are being represented as, or in- deed our arents at all except in the sense of being friends of Lonsdalc's.” T asked, “Did you write Lonsdale's memajrs?” Philby: “Gordon is a very talented fellow but he is no jiterary man. T laoked over his . manuscript.” Continuing on the Krogers, he said: * We hear that they are deteriorating in prison. Kroger, we are informed, is eovered in eczema. tions they are being held under are imhumanty severe” I said, “I suppose a very close eye js being kent on them after Rinke’s escape.” Philby: “Perhaps. In any event wwe consider this exchance Kould well take place. Now, look St the oiher sicte, 1s The. condi. a pity about, Rrovke, he really } was a silly fellow. He involved with the NTS (The gat, i \ + were supposed | “ People’s Labour front”, ® venerable Russian refugee organisation) and they gave him a list of people to contact who to be working inside the Soviet Union. We. have penetrated what is left of. the NTS wo thoroughly that the very fitst person he contacted waa K cB man. All this came out at Brooke's trial and well known in the West. . 1 said, “ There geems to DE & feeling in the West that Brooke Was more A panding ou literature and was grabbed bY your people in order to exchanges him off for the Krogers.” Philby: “Well, check it out with any of your Russian speak, 4 ing colleagues here in Moscow. I] did: Philby’s version © oy ooke's activities seemed to square with the reports -of people who attended his trial.) Philby continued: “Now, the § really UL it used to be financed ee the S15 but it was banded ver to the CLA some time in 3950. I ought to Know—it was me who handed it over. This certainly makes Brooke some sort of Western ape, doesn't i? Tts up to you and the MY encangyto decide who wants him back.” 1 said, “Are you helping things sions by jietreating Brooke, a5 you are OP toy! ing e Wast: ; be doing int Brooke is ut prisoner and we are treating him in accordance with Soviet Jaws, not your laws. He is being treated like any other prisoner would be in his position. After all, he is in prison. You don't expect to gét al! this (indicating a table spread th vodka, caviare and wine) in prison. Prisons tend to be unpleasant places. That's why 1 always took good care to keep out. ] asked, “ Does this suggestion that you would withdraw your book if the Krogers were ex: changed come superiors?" a rs { from your aero goo eee UT WIT