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Ke a ae _— nae + fendi Geena lean, [ oo te ee ee Les | wo t . - - . i Bete po eee wees deny femgl om pe = a Qe ene ea — ge pip bee J ot Ta | ey pete ee oe ET 7“ * fame - a * aw ol} =e i ° a ay is & o™~ = yerl ee ae oe as i aa “¥ra tote * Re ad a oor a oer me a r cur ox binge. x Mew ee Bat hat K “3 — it va ee fe wt ee i “ar er i i . . , : *,- teh i a. ee ose ke Coe Fe LES | Sipe ane Sed eae a Cr a rd 1555 Former Foucign Office 7 NOVEMBER 1955 * fMr. Tomeryy oo if vere alert: sce me privately, the names and sources where I got my information. My first Question # this: is it or is it pot the fact at, on the first day when Maclean entered the Foreign Office, he declared to a colleague that he was a member of the Communist Party? My second ques- tion is this: why have M.1L5 not yet inter- viewed members of the Washington staff -of the Foreign Office who were directt associated with Burgess and Maclean Why have they not been interviewed? {An Hon. Memper: “ And grilied."] - The third point, and on this 1 am Prepared to give names and dates if necessary, is that I have always taken the view that a secret service should be abso- lutely secret and that most of its members : should not be known to each otber. To successful, it has to work in an atma- “sphere of great secrecy. 1 do not know, and the public at large do not know, how the members of M15 are recruited, whether they are more military of more intelligence, whether they are ex-police- men of relired generals, but, if they are, ht will not do, - =~. -- - 1 - + ' In the circumstances of the ideological] war with which we are now dealing, we Want a new type of man, the type of man who -understands the principles’ and ideology of Marxism, a man who-can interpret and read the minds of the men with whom he has to deal, When Petroy finally defected, the man with him was a member of the Australian Secret Ser- vice, who had worked for two years to E" the desired result—and got it. That why I want to know more about M.LS, - Jtake the view that this service would be better vested in a special branch or super- special branch of Scotland Yard. ] cannot for the life of me see how any Depart- ment in Whitehall can use its own security forces which are attached to each par- ‘ticular Department. It is tantamount to faying fhat each ‘atomic plant in this country shall have one security man in each depariment, all perhaps conflictin all having different friendships and loyai- ties. 3 take the view that this job should be a professional job, that the pay and pensions should be adequate, and that the alow = - nh ae ae : : ae . soy wos lec ate 7, te “ mae or aoe orgies oh Mt 45%. who had been to China. He was the general manager in London of a larg mercantile and commercial bank, I know . nothing at all about mercantile and com. mercia) banking, but 1 struck up as beguaintance with him end I had a across the world. When we stayed ia Rome, at the breakfast table next morn-* ing. he caid “ The man at the next table is M.LS.” “ How on earth do you know?” T asked, “Because he told me,” he . replied, che: oct tude Se AoteL __ If (hat is so—and this information cas be checked, because the details of the fight can be checked—it is stupid police (<) Our military destiny is tied up with N.A.T.O., and the United States is the strongest and most permanent member af NATO. . The Burgess.and Macleas issue has made a tremendous impact os the United States security service. Unless We ate prepared to put our house in muck better order than is envisaged by the Foreign Secretary, I am afraid that our journey from now on will not be ae wae terme POPPY, ret mec ators 655 pmii- tee Te tie ea wee ot ‘with him while ftying half-way | Fe ee ee ene ere ee re VL Wed een 1 mee ee ly. Let us make no mistake about it Myr. Peter Rawlinson (Epsom): I have | been chiefly impressed in this debate, * apart from the length of the speeches, by the loyalty, which E have always heard of | and read about previously, of political chiefs to the Service they represent or the Department to which they are responsibie, The loyalty which they have shows, . iribuies to which I have listened to hese | today for the first time, has impressed me, although I well appreciate the constitu tional position of the Minister, who. #: fesponsible for the Department: oy sc4zs + I have wondered sometimes if some af the more junior civil servants—not the heads of Departments, with whom J hay no acquaintance whatsoever—who make . criticisms of their political chiefs should . not sometimes take a lesson from thor political chiefs who .bave to sland her and answer for some of their misdoings. -No one in this House desires that ther * should ‘be any witch-hunting in his, Me hae tasn scatd hie maa matter, _FBe 65400 REE OD uy ie sheetiwa, 3 rif * staf] should be recruited from the best speakers, no one supports the kind @, ¥ pragens weno dype of man available. -esrry eo 1 system which is found in other countries | hai - This Service is supposed tobe secret. under which individuals can be harried - pi 7 ¥ travelfed back from Thailand last year and bullied by committees sect up 1 . EL 3 by air, and we had to stay ia Rome over- investigate their behaviour ; but the rag Le eee night. On the same plane was # man _ fications of a conspiracy are extremcy: an bee ups eee . . ~ ’ tap, : e- “F eee TL) QTE a Re ET eee ee RM ne no wee . ar nae : . ac) i a a et oe 7 wee os cad of ; : . + cyt ~ a Pa es on on nd ithe > ” set, wt