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j Ure Fromne. pe 3 WALLACE! Why? oe PROMM! I think because they sense thet they apend the best of their energy. . 8 hours « « Loe & s 4 in which enerey beat day e hinges an in, a way is not meaning- WALLACE: You sey 'meaningfull . . ne ; FRieMe By tecaningful! X mean thet there in/really relatedness to what they are doling beceuse they are doing it only in order to wake noney and that is net enough: for a satisfaction of spending one'a best life energy. WALLACES All right, in our social relationships. »« im our fealinga towards our neighbors, towards our friends anc towards our business anccoiates,«ce what is happening to us? , FROMMe Again | think that we meet « peculiar NoMGhnete.ss Commoieusly — every tody spcaka about 'tegethernesa’ today. We ali feel consciously very friendly . « we emile.. we have many frients and yet I think mest ef us are actually very lonely. We feel underneath kind ef anxious . . we isolated.. and our friendliness is a kind ef superficial friend iness of people who are in the sexe boet and sstually feel lonely ant mrt eed I think you might say thet while we talk a great deal about friené and friendliness we are at the seme time ind of afraid tebe closer te each other anf we oewer um teia feeling br a kind of surerfie ial rannrater le, 2 but not by a 6eep mt intense fealing. WALLACE: Im your boek "The Sane Seoiety”, you write at some length about the 4 anne tine mzeakn orlentation', and how it aakes a aan less than he ¢an oF Z PuOwM; I think ¢his has te de with the point I mentioned before, that we. have transformed ourselves into things. We meet each other as things woul meet cach other en the market. Zager to exchange thesselves, with a profs. Could I clive yeu m concrete example? 1 fa kind of not entirely realistié, ge you will see, Assuming a handbag in a departuent store 6 think end feel and there is one beautiful band tut because of the recession, ist's | way, it haan't been sold. If that bag would feel ike nofernman 1% would have a terrific inferiroity feeling because it would feel because . it haan't becn sel¢@ it has no values, and te translate that inte more direst =~ terug, I would say the sense of value of mest of us depends on our - ability on the personality market and we are called successful if we have. BOld ourselves, | WALLACE: And succean should be what instead of that kind of saleability? FROMNS Sucgesa should be the astisfaction of work well done.. work usefiles i work meaningful. . ve WALIACEE Let's go to polities.. what is happening te man in relationship to hie politics... and at the same tine, am a core without becosing specific, I would like te ask you about our political lesderss ‘ 4 wt