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UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES 5977 Mr. Marcantonio. We had this in mind, we had this concrete situ- ation, in other words, of getting into airplane factories, and Nazis hanging around various places involving the national defense; in other words, where their activities were of an espionage character. The CuainmMan. Would that be true of Communists? Mr. Marcantonio. If the Communists were involved in espionage. The CHatrman. Why did you not say Mr, Marcantonto, If a Communist were involved in espionage, wa would not defend him. We are not defending spies. The CHairman. Then why did net you say in the resolution “Communists” along with “Nazis”? Mr. Marcantonio. FE have been trying to explain that. That ques- tion came up before the national board and came up in connection : - - 44 . eos . . wath oo seed nrannsitinn af a Nagi activity, and wa caid that Nagi WHEEL a OpACR I PRU PAGE Gb A ANd GLC EAR) ISA SARA Le A aed activity involved espionage and would not come within the purview of our activities, The I. EL. D. will not undertake the defense of any Nazi, Fascist, or any other, under those circumstances. In other words, it wil not defend them or any other persons or organ- izations whose aims and activities are antilabor and antidemocratic, The Cuarrman. It looks to me like that means what it says. Mi. Marcantonio, Exactly. The Cuatrman. Anybody whose aims are antidemocratic or anti- labor, regardless of what they engage in, you won’t defend them? Mr, Marcantonio. We won't defend them if their activities are stichi—TI_ was present at the time that resolution took place——~ The Cuiameman. All we have is what you say in the resolution. My, Marcantonio. Many times we have lost these cases where we just have words and have the na Sagurt jpterpret them. I am telling vou just what happenétt e will not—I will say once agai—we will not defend anybody involved in an antidemocratie activity. By that I mean anything which is unlawful. And why do we mention Nazis? Because the Nazi constitution and the Fascist constitution came up, and we passed a resolution on that. But I go further: if a Communist is involved in an espionage activity, the Niternational Labor Defense will not defend him, We will not de- Tend: anybody, Mr. Starnes. What about sabotage? : Mr, Marcantonio, Sabotage includes espionage. It would include sabotage. certainly. Mr. Staves. What about men who are guilty of murder? My, Marcawtonro. If a man is aecnsed™ of murder, we will not defeml nurder cases, Mr. Srarnrs. I said guilty of murder. Mr. Marcantonro, Where are civil rights involved there? _ Mr. Starxes. What about men who are guilty of arson and the testruction of property ? Mr. Marcantoxro, We are not a public-defender outfit. There are ‘wv eivil rights involved there, The answer is “No”: unless the man is frst and we are convinced that they charge the man with arson tals lecause he happens to be a Jabor leader. In other words, like Tlie Mooney case, a ve T said guilty of arson, 7 a ARCANTONTO, Just. a moment ; T want to pet down to cases. * “here a tian is charged with murder. and we are convinced he Steen waste, mnmaciiatinen Thad eid Panne ieeeenegetiat ieee ape -Ulie—mniat- tai innegpraneth dh anparppemedena-ianena hava) os a ee + * —_— =