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Bertin ES pee A Sa ae OH ro ' 76 sm. the potential for Communist infiltration, then, tf that continues to be your theory, then I say you are going to pursue the same wretched road that these files show you have been Pursuing before. If that is the predicate. the fact that a Soviet or Marxist or Maoist Hottentot is liable to think there is an idea that we can exploit, then you people are going to be spending how many man-hours, how many tax dollars ] oing the kind of things that I-summarized so briefly here? That, in my book, is the 20th century version of what the Founding Fathers intended to prevent when they wrote the first amendment. Is it the position of the Bureau when a Communist participates, associates with, and promotes an idea, that this justifies you trying to figure out if. you can bust up 4 marriage if two of the people are in the group! Mr. Avama. It does not, and it is not our criteria; no, sir. Senator Harr of Michigan. What does it justify t Mr. Apams It justifies our doing nothing in the way of COIN TELPRO activities. I stilt feel it has a justification, that you agree with, to investigate the Communist Party. It is when you get into the disruptive areas, where the program does beyond investigation, that we have no statutory authority. | oo Senator Harr of Michigan. Well. we have been emphasizing COINTELPRO. Would it justify tailing these peoplef Mr. Apasrsa. What, just a——— Senator Hart of Michigan. Or putting an informant into the groupt Mr. Apame. If it is a Communist group? Senator Harr of Michigan. No, if it’s me and somebody else that thinks we oughtn’t to have something that a majority of people think we should. We organize and you people say, “Well, there rs something the Communists can take and run with.” Mr. Apams, No, sir. Senator Harr of Michigan. Does that justify a surveillance of them? Mr. Apawsa. It does not, and we would not. Before we would even open « preliminary inquiry, we should have an indication that the Communist Party has attempted to infiltrate or is infiltrating. In other words, where vou have some evidence of a subversive proup participating in the functions of that organization, and there are gre areas here, in the spectrum of anything where I am sure we have open investigations where we should not because there has been scant evi- | ' dence of such infiltration. And this is a supervisory problem. It is a | seek to justify shutting off the forum for that group or to survey it, yee * et gee criteria problem. And it is also an oversight problem which we are responding to. : Senator Harr of Michigan. My time is up and IT haven't gotten into eS ee —— some of the other material, The Cnammax. Well, Senator. you have not been with us— Senator Hart of Michigan. No. no, I just—— The Caaman, If you want more time. vou have a lot of time stored up. If-you want to use it now. go right ahead. Senator Harr of Michigan. Well. let me ask the justification for this sort of business. I have been talking about the things I have seen- in the files that bear on direct denial of first amendment rights, and again. this does not deal with the treatment of a distinguished Ameri- can. Indeed, it involves groups that are generally viewed with very poe re | 1 i - Tt gt ates QT Lt She Vee ok Mh Ripe Ge ATS ce Dita ch a: Paes x 7 iy wr at Pe ee ee. . wee a= + 7, oa