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2068 mitted those name™to the Secretary of Btate? Mr, McCARTHY. I do not follow the Genator’s question. Have I submitted 250 names? Mr. LEHMAN. I asked whether the Senator had submitted to Secretary Acheson the names represented by the reports which he has read, as well as the other approximately 250 namfs to which references have been made. e reason I mentioned 250 names is because I am adcing the 57 names to the 205 names wh.ch have been mentioned on several occasions. Task whether those names or any fuostantial number of them have’ been submitted to the Secrétary of State? Mv. McCARTHY. I have given Sec- retary Acheson nothing—period. Mr. LEHMAN. I did not understand the Senator's answer, Mr. McCARTHY. I said I have given Sccretary Acheson nothing—pertod. So that there mar be no confusion, and I thirt I have expiained it twice to the Benatcr—the S+nator is not dull and krows what Iam talking about—the 205 persons who were mentioned in Secre- tary Byrnes’ letter were those whom the Bta.e Department refused to Are after the Security Agency had recommended that they be fired. I told the Senator that I did not have those names. All T have is the total number. The Secre- tary of State has those names, however. Ali he needs to do is to go to his filles. Mr. LEHMAN. I thank the Senator for conceding that Iam not dull, but I stil’ do not understand why these names have not been submitted to the Secretary of State I can understand the Sena- tor's unwill-neness to submit to this body or to any other public body the names of men accysed on somewhat unsubstan- tiated charges, but I] do not understand his unwillingness to submit the names to the responsible official the head of the fale TESPOTL.Ge Oantia,, We ead of State Department, whom he is accusing of laxress. I wonder whether the Sena- tor will make some further explanation in novder that the Matter May be clear to me. Mr. McCARTHY. Yam afraid that if it is not clear to the Senator now I shall never be able to make it clear to him. no matter how much further explanation I make. J told the Senator that the Sec- retary of State has the names as to which # Iam reading the numbers. They are in the files of the Secretary of Stata aie ES Oi Le GAT CLary Gi oak. giving the Senator information which is confirmed by information in the files in the Of%ce of the Secretary of State. It should be clear to the Senator that all the information which Iam givine on the ficor of the Senate has been available to the Secretary of State for a long time. If the Secretary of State does not know that the investigative agency has rec- ommended that ¢ertain individuals be discharged, he can easily check and find out The files are all in his possession Mr LUCAS. Mr. ienator yield * Mr. McCARTHY. TI yield for a ques- tien Mr LUCAS. Does the Senator know, or can he tell Senators, whether or not the Lovalty Board has checked any of these persons whom he is describing here by Dumbers? Tam 4 890 Beocidant Po CONGh.. SIONAL -ment, a bo Mr, MCCARTHY. . have just toid the “Benator I do not know. Mr. LUCAS. I thank the Senator. I do not believe that the name “Loyalty Board” has come tnto the debate as yet. But Iam not sure. 7 was not clear as to what agency the Benajor was referring to Mr, McCARTHY. The name I used was “(nvestigative agency.” When em- Ployees from temporary war agencies were transferred to the State Depart- ‘dd was set up to screen them. Whether that was called the loyalty board, I do not know, It was an investi- gative agency. J do not know that at any one time there were two investiga- tive agencies. There may have been. Mr. LUCAS. Mr. President, will the Senator yield further? Mr McCARTHY. eval. SELLY e cad 20.c. Mr. LUCAS. If I understand the Senator correctly, the persons who are represented by the numbers which he has - now given to the Senate, without giving aby names, have been recommended to be glischarged by the Loyalty Board se- lected by the President of the United States. Mr. McCARTHY. I do not know whether that Js correct. I have tried to make this clear. I do not have the names of all the individuals the Loyalty Board rasoammendead he dAiccharcad ar0arG PECOOAIACOGtG ef este raeeu. found in the reports, however, a scaple number whom the investigative agency has recommended should be discharged. Let me make that clear. There was one group of 205, back in 1946. Since that time the investigative agency recom- mended that other groups be discharged. The treatment which was given to those recommendations was substantially the Same a5 was given to the recommenda- tions in 1946. In 1946, Secretary Byrnes said, out of 285, 79 were _iischarged. That is the frst group. With subse- quent groups the same action was taken, I have never had the names of all the greups. Ido not even know how many there are. I know 206 is the definite number in the first group, because the Becretary of State has said there were 206 Mr. LUCAS. Mr. President, will the Benator yield further? Mr. MCCARTHY. I ysield. Mr..LUCAS. Is the Senator familiar With the personnel of the Loyalty Board? Mr, McCARTHY,. Frank!y, I am not. Mr. LUCAS. If it should turn out that some of the individuals whom the Senator has named by number have been cleared by the loyalty board, would that affect the Senator's opinion with respect to those persons? Mr. McCARTHY. I would have to know something of the personne] of the Joyalty board. When Communists sre able to get their men into the Central Intelligence Agency and into the higbest emote In the State Deecartment T escsiume SPOS ai eit ISbeit avt Per eiciil, 2 eoouit that a Prize target would be the loyalty board. So I cannot tell the Senator what I would think of this board’s recom- mendations. If I had an FBI report on the loyalty beard, and if it were a good, competent board, certainiy thet would mean something to me. However, when I find that some Individuals who have .CORD—SENATE FEBRUARY 20 been reported by the investigative agency to be Communists were given top- secret clearance, and if the loyalty board is in charge of giving top-secret clear- ance, it would indicate that the loyalty board fs not too competent. Mr. LUCAS. I do not know what part the loyalty board has plaved in this in- sO7ally Doar Feaycc vestigation. Mr, McCARTHY. Nor do L Mr. LUCAS. But I am sure they will be in it, because undoubtedly they have checked and double checked these indi- viduals who are now identified by num- bers. The Senator wil] find that the President's loyalty board is headed by & very capable and competent lawyer by the name of Seth Richardson, who is a very representative Republican and a tremendously loyal American. I see two flenators on the Renublican side rising stnetor wait seep ulitees GAGs FP eSi tig. Mr, FERGUSON. Mr. President, will the Senator yield? Mr. NEELY. I object. The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. Mas- NusON in the chair). Does the Senator from Wisconsin yield to the Senator from Wlinois for a question? Mr. LUCAS. All I say is that I hope the Senator will look at the names of the members of the Loyalty Board. Mr. NEELY. Mr. President, I intend to object to any Benator masking a speech im the tima mf thea Ganatar fear, Wis ook LE RU AEE OP consin. I made that statement before, He will either hold the floor or lose it. Mr. McCARTHY. Mr. President, I might say that I thank the Senator from West Virginia. The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the * Senator from Wisconsin yield to the Ben- ator from Michigan for a question? Mr. McCARTHY. 7 will yield in a moment. I thank the Senator from West Virginia. The hour {fs getting late, and I am very willing Pan yield for a question, but if I am to finish these re- marks tonight, I de not care to yleld for any More speeches. I yleld to the Senator from Michigan. Mr. FERGUSON. I merely desired to ask the Senator whether he knew thet Seth Richardson was the head of the Loyalty Appeals Board, and not the board which might be operating in the State Department. Mr. McCARTHY. I understand that Mr. Richardson has no furisdiction whatsoever over any State Department employee, unless a State Department em- Ployee feels he has been badly treated, and appeals to Mr. Richardson's board. But Mr. Richardson does not pass upon any of the cases originally. If the State Department fails to fire a man who should be discharged, then nothing comes to Mr. Richardson. Mr. FERGUSON. Is it not true that the Senator is speaking about a security committee, composed of State Depart- ment employees, rather than a loyalty board, and that he is speaking about a committee that was in existence prior to the loyalty board? Mr. McCARTHY. I might say that I do not know what the technical name of the Investigative agency is. I know that within the State Department in- vestigations are conducted. Some of those investigations may be conducted by