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.e een NDA ACTIVITIES ma pan of the labor strugyle, snot interested in the defense regardless of their race, creed, nocratic rights are deprived: businessman if his democratic Nazi if his democratic mghts hts are involved, certainly; ‘atic activities, his democratic n. then; you don’t give a hoot or how much he is punished, iw T say to my colleagne from ‘ation of his democratic and ‘his correct : You regard nazi- enson you provide that you —the fact it is antidemocratic? 't a moment—it is not as gen- at person’s activity. Usually from my experience, has been . the purview of the liberties tution. ve are taking the phrase used wveneral phrase. That is why am trying to get its applica- Nazi in the United States en- ut of that, he is arrested ech, let us say? hh.” is activities? If his activities i he is arrested, we would not ud anybody 4 resolution, did you just men- 4is and Fascists, particularly are activities that are along when you said you would not what in mind? 5977 Mir, Marcantonio. We had this in mind, we had this concrete situ- ation, in other words, of getting into airplane factories, and Nazis hanging around various places involving the national defense; in other words, where their activities were of an espionage character. The Cuairmin. Would that_be true of Communists? Mr. Marcantonio. If the Communists were involved in espionage. The Cnatrman, Why did you not say Mr, Marcantonio. If a Communist were involved in espionage, we would not defend him. We are not defending spies. The Cyaan, Then why did not you say in the resolution “Communists” along with “Nazis”? Mr. Marcanronio. IT have been trying to explain that. That ques- tion came up before the national board and came up in connection with a specific proposition of a Nazi activity, and we said that Nazi activity involved espionage and would not come within the purview of our activities, The I. L. D. will not undertake the defense of any Nazi, Fascist, or any other, under those circumstances. In other words, it will not defend them or any other persons or organ- jzAtions whose aims and activities are antilabor and antidemocratic. The Cuatnuan. It looks to me like that means what it says. My. Marcantonio. Exactly. The Cuainman, Anybody whose aims are antidemocratic or anti- labor, regardless of what they engage in, you won't defend them? Mr. Marcantonio. We won't defend them if their activities are such—tI was present at the time that resolution taok place-—— The Cuatrman. All we have is what you say in the resolution. Mr. Marcantonio. Many times we have lost these cases where we just have words and have the *UnneS Court interpret them, I am telling you just what happened. fe will not—I will say once again—we will not defend anybody involved in an antidemocratic activity. By that I mean anything which is unlawful, And why do we mention Nazis? Because the Nazi constitution and the Fascist constitution came up, and we passed a resolution on that. But I go further: if a Communist is involved in an espionage activity. the International Labor Defense will not defend him. We will not de- fend anybedy. Mr. Srarnes. What about sabotage? Mr. Marcantonio. Sabotage includes espionage. It would include sabotage. certainly. Mr. Srarxes. What_about men who are guilty of murder? Mr. Marcantonio, If a man is accused of murder, we will not defend murder cases. My. Starnes. I said guilty of murder. Mr. Marcantonio. Where are civil rights involved there? Mr. Srarnes. What about men who are guilty of arson and the destruction of property? Wre ave unt a nnhliic_dofandoer antht Thase avs TG RPS NGL A Pwoit-GRiciaer Guia. aAners ars no civil rights involved there. The answer is “No”; unless the man is framed and we are convinced that they charge the man with arson simply because he happens to be a labor leader. In other words, like the Mooney case. Mr. Starnes. J said guilty of arson. Mr. Marcantonio. Just a moment; I want to get down to cases. T say where a man is charged with murder, and we are convinced he UN-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA ACTIVITIES My Mavraerneim Seb GT a