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SECRET 8 b1 (S) KAKTIS GUNDANG: (Cont.) forces uh black people have moved into white areas and in Johannesburg you have uh the suburb of UNr which is predom...supposed to be a white uh suburb. But today it's become more black than white and the authorities have just uh lent a, a blind eye to that.. KAPLAN: Being, being Indian and facially brown and not black and speaking on behalf of the South African government, what, what experiences do you have and what peculiar situations do you encounter? GUNDANG: Oh, I've had some interesting experiences and I think we'll need a couple of programs to talk about that.. KAPLAN: I have all the time in the world. GUNDANG: (Chuckles) KAPLAN: We can go again on the unT or we might call up UNT week after. GUNDANG: Right. Uh, when I ca..came here first in uh late 1987 uh the South African government was viewed as the pariah of the world and things have changed in recent times and we've become more acceptable today especially with the leadership of President uh DE KLERK and uh the courageous uh reform uh moves that he's, he's taken. And when I came here in uh about 87 people were generally expecting a white blond blue-eyed South African representative. And they were, I wouldn't say disappointed but uh they were surprised to see me. And I enjoyed that because what it