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SECRE b1 (S) KAK:rs GUNDANG: (Cont.) rights campaign has uh attained uh civil rights amenities but you, as we, as you aware about the economic position, we've seen drugs, we've seen crime, and the, the, the plight of the black man in the United States of America and a lot of the, the peo..the black Americans were, were too young during the civil rights movement and now they look to NELSON MANDELA. And, it's just, what concerns me is this blind uh acceptance of the man and they seem to be blinded by uh the pain and the suffering of his 27 years. And there is that element of rationalities is gone from, from the debate. KAPLAN: I hope it doesn't sound in a way obscene but doesn't somebody tell him that he is not Mother THERESA and that he is not the Pope and that he is not, that he is not uh the great American black hero uh.... GUNDANG: Right. In fact he's been compared to MARTIN LUTHER KING, Jr. KAPLAN: Right. GUNDANG: MARTIN LUTHER KING, Jr., like MAHATMA GANDHI propagated non violence and I've always had a problem with the African National Congress and with NELSON MANDELA when they propagate the arms struggle and violence. And the arms struggle and the violence today is really directed at their own people. And black people. They intimidate black people to follow their life and they intimidating black policemen uh to, to be on their side as well. ECRE