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PHILBY narrow squeaks, and fairly Constant pressure of one kind OF, another. : © {But surrender to cireum- 4c, stances would have been a much freater strain than resistance to y them.” ig Phitby ate with a hearty appetite — smoked salmon, sturgeon. chicken Kiev, e talked about changes in {British Tntelligence since his ure. He ventured that f should discuss this with George e. Leaders Blake 1s also here in Moscow vafter his sensational escape from Wormwood Scrubs where yhe was serving a 40-year y sentence for espionage. - “If you want to know about vthe diatges Initiated after Blake's | disappearance,” ‘said Philby, “he will perhaps put you on to & sultable informant He went on: “ Witnessed those changes from cl - chuckle : escaped from prison ?” On the leadership of British Zntelligence “Philby aid: “Certainly the British Govern- ment have great difficulties in finding the right men to run their Intelligence services. "ej Military men have never really shone in this field. “Iam surprised Americans were not beticr led. Allen Dulles of the Central Intelligence Agency was too fastly won round. He wanted to be persuaded. « “You would discuss some- 9 thing with him and just when you thought the answer was due he would say, "Well, gentle: men, I think we will adjourn now and reconvene later at my conyenience.’” ‘Trials’ Philby revealed that he faced two secret trials" in July 1952, over the Burgess-Maciean* affair, The first was conducted by Hefenus Milmo, Q.C.—now @ High Court judge—after M.S ad spent nearly a year prepar- ing a case. Philby survived The second, and hitherto unreported, grilling took place the next day at Philoy's London ome and was conducted by William Skardon, an ex-police. man high up in M5, “Skardon was unquestionably trickiest cross-examiner ave met,” sald Philby, “and I Temember sitting there waiting to parry his trick questions,” According to Philby it was Marcus Lipton, M.-P... who eventually saved hin. In, October 1955 Mr. Lipton Stood up in the Commons and named Philby as the third man behind the detection of Burgess, that the ° a] CONTINUED FROM PAGE ONE _ BEING VERY FRANK ABOUT— Macmillan: “ . *Forced ‘to clear The Express: ae ‘Edgiest quest. s 4 me s better turn if he hed wanted to. “By naming me he virtually forced Harold Macmillan to ciear me, because it obvious they did'not have any concrete evidence — plenty of : circum- stantial stuff but nothing hard.” Hi “Of course, to be the Prime Minister recalled that ‘xpress had been“ buzz. ike an angry bee” “Even at my Press conference after the Prime Minister's statement.” he said. pin remember it “was the Express’s Donald Seaman who Gave me the hardest time with the edgiest questions.” Mr. Lipton’s "intervention, Said Philby, gave him a seven: Year bonus in the spy business. Showdown ‘He left London then-to begin is’ spell in Beirut, Lebanon— which, he said, was one of the least pleasant of his life, He was still working—apart from the Russlans—for British Intelligence. which had per- suaded™ the Foreign Office to ask The Observer newspaper to employ Philby as tts Middle East correspondent, Tt was not until 1961, when British Intelligence sent an officer to ask Philby if he was working for the Russians. that he decided to cail it a day. He defected to Russia because he “felt real danger wa: than ever beforé.” Over coflee and more wine Philby said. nhilasanbirany «sre closer ird Man: , ‘TI was grilled jhirties, The ruters of mast of the capitalist countries are more today. : sophisticated “But would they have con. ceded so much if they had not been compelled to look over their shoulders at a workers’ State grown in 50 years from Tuinous chaos to the ‘undisputed status of a super-Power ? * Then Philby talked about current events, “Must Americans run amok indefinitely in” Asia, South America and elsewhere, us all?" seriously endangering he asked. “Must @ Labour Government in Britain support them indefin- itely to ensure American Props for’ \he battered £ Sterling 7” “Are Harold Wilson-Brown- Callaghan’ more astute, or indeed Socialist. than the appalling trio of MacDonald- Snowden-Thomas ? * He mused on this question of is, staring into an empty coffee cup. i question" answers 1d finally, he sa: The 30’s Philby's political mentality was, in his own words, irrevoc- ably fixed in the 1930s, Thirty- five years and 1.500 miles’ distance have not changed his min “I was @ perfectly genuine Socialist in 1931." he said, “ but that split me effectively’ from British politics and set me on another fateful course. “The thinkien background of my ty Baldwin, Chamb ruled by sine. Cenira) Ey war, preferab; Soviet Union best_solution “The nu which 1 too de the workers. The frightful. “It became cl drastic remedics outside the fra ventional bourge Of the Spanis which he was Stalingrad * Gini which the Ru defeateg the Ger BOs att: asked Phi fhought of Rus: in which to live “I am having Jove affair with said, suddenly mi: “We have «