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pore nee me Se oe oe manmneng nie rons eee 1538 “Former Fo-visn Offed —'7 NOVEMBER 1955 opautr Wrpor WK. bee me privately, the names and sources where I got my information. My first Question #s this: is it of is it not the fact that, oo the first day when Maclean entered the Foreign Office, he declared fo a colleague that he was a member of the Communist Party? “My second ques- tion is this: why have M.1.5 not yet inter- viewed members of the Wachington staff of the Forcign Office who were direct! associated with Burgess and Maclean’ Why have they not been interviewed? {An Hox. Memper: “And gritied.“] The third point, and on this 1 am Prepared to give names and dates if necessary, is that J have always taken the view that a secret service should be abso- lutely secret and that most of its members ‘should not be known to each other. To “be successful, it has to work in an atmo- ~ sphere of Sreat secrecy. 1 do not know, and the public at large do not know, how the members of M.I.5 are recruited, whether they are more military of more intelligence, whether they are ex-police- Men or retired generals, but, if they are, will not do, - =~. -- 2 en etn In the circumstances of the ideological] war with which we are now dealing. we wanl a new type of man, the type of man who -undersiands the principles” and ideology of Marxism, a man who'can interpret and read the minds of the men with whom he has to deal, When Petrov finally defected, the man with him was a member of the Australian Secret Set- vice, who had worked for two years to £ the desired resuli—and got it. That why I want to know more about M.LS. - Itake the view that this service would be better vested in a special branch or super- special branch of Scotland Yard. 1 cannot for the life of me see how any Depart. ment in Whitehall can use its own security forces which are attached to each par- ‘ticular Department. It is tantamount to faying fhat each ‘atomic plant in this country shall have one security man io each department, all perhaps conflictin, all having different friendships and Soyal- ties. ¥ take the view that this job should be a professional job, that the pay and Pensions should be adequate, and that the Stal should be recruited from the best type of man available. © es ee% end - This Service is supposed to be secret. T¥ travelled back from Thailand last year by air, and we had to stay in Rome over- wight. On the same plane was 8 man moe . . ; nab big bs cewinalT eSiaba S A et OR who had been to China. He ‘was the genera) manager in London of a larg Mercantile and commercial bank. J know nothing at all about mercantile and com mercia) banking, but 1 struck up ae acquaintance with him and J had a long talk -with him while fying half-way across the world, When we stayed ia Rome, at the breakfast table next morn-~ , ing he said “ The man at the next table is M.LS.” “ How on earth do you know?” 3 SX Becauss he told me,” be i, ca hi oh. If (hat is so—and this information cas be checked, because the details of the figmt can be checked—it is stupid police folly. Let us make no mistake about it Our military destiny is tied up with NAT.O., and the United States is the strongest and most permanent member of NAT.O, . The Burgess.aod Macleaa issue has made a tremendous impact oa the United States security service. Unless we are prepared to put our house in muck Detter order than is envisaged by the Foreign Secretary, 1 am afraid that our journey from now on be PY, 655 pin. ote : Mr. Peter Rawlinson (Epsom): I have been chiefly impressed in this debate, © apart from the length of the speeches, by the loyalty, which I have always heard of and read about previously, of political chiefs to the Service they represent or the Department to which they are responsible, The foyalty which they have showa, . tributes to which I have listened to here today for the first time, has impressed me, although 1 well appreciate the constitu- tional position of the Minister who. i: fesponsible for the Department s9:"sr4a- I bave wondered sometimes if some of the more junior civil servants—not the heads of Departments, with whom J have oO acquaintance whatsoever—who make . criticisms of their political chiefs shoul . Rot sometimes take a lesson from thor political chiefs who .bave to stand bese and answer for some of their misdoings No one in this House desires that ther * should ‘be any witch-hunting in his, matter, As has been said by mag speakers, no one supports the kind | system which is found in other countries, : under which individuals can be harried and bullied by committees set up investigate their behaviour ; but the rage fications of a conspiracy are extremely ° aan