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1950 sentatives the right to know what is going on in Washington? I do not see how any defenders of democracy, in view of the Hiss and the Fuchs cases, can stil] maintain the right of the executive department of govern- Ment to refuse—as has been occurring repeatedly in recent years—information from the files to be atithorized to be seen by the committees Bf Congress. Mr. McCARTHY. I may point out to the Senator that the Constitution gives the Congress the right to get the infor- mation which we have been demanding for some time. Under the Constitution, of course, the Congress has a right to that information. How we can force the President to give the information to Con- gress Ido not know. On August 4, 1946, the day H Hiss was ex- posed by the House committee, and the day of the President's famous “red her- ring” statement, the President signed an order saying, “No more departmental in- formation shall be given to congressional committees." At that time there might have been a reason for it; at that time the Congress Was controlled by the Republican Party, and I can see why the Presifient, with an election coming along, might have felt that the information might have been weed for enmoe ooltinal asin aes ee SVE Poe, gail, However, the President's party has had contro! of both the Senate and the House of Representatives for over a year now, and it seems that the President should be able to trust his own party. His party is in control. He showld be able to say, “This is information to which the Congress is entitled, under the Con- stitution. My own party is in power, I will let them have it.” Frankly, Mr. President, I think the President is making a terrible mistake. If I may suggest something to the Sen- ator, let me say that I think he and I certainly should be on the same side in this matter. The Democratic Party cer- tainly is going to suffer because of this, but it should not. I think the Demo- cratic Party has lost contro! of the exec- utive branch. An tnusual group of people—a group of twisted-thinking in- tellectuals—has taken over in the State Department, in recent years.. They think they are right, that ls what makes them dangerous. If the Democratic Party, as we see it represented here in the Senate, had con- trol, I do not think this sorry situation would exist. So the Senator should work with us in ng to clean house. McMAHON. Mr. President, will es Benarer wialdd Bae GENar Feia: Mr. McCARTHY. Iam glad to yield. Mr. McMAEON. The Senator's ob- servation is entirely beside the point, as was the observation just made by the Senator from Maine. I do not stand here to defend anyone. I simply wish to point out to the Benator that there was a complete file on these persons, and the Benator obviously was giving only the derogatory information. Mr.McCARTHY. That is not correct. Mr. McMAHON. I pointed out to the Senator that falrness demanded that the full files be made available, and certainly that should be done before judgment of | cdnGRESSIONAL RECORD—SEN the case is had That is my position, and nothing else, Mr. MUNDT, Mr. CAPEEART, and other Senators addressed the Chatr. The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the Senator from Wisconsin yield; and if 80, to whom? Mr. McCARTHY. I shall yield in a moment. ' First, Mr. President, let me say that the Senator from Connecticut just in- duiged igsan erroneous assumption when he said TF was indicating only the deroga- tory information, This is a résumé of the file. Mr. MUNDT. Mr. President, will the Benator yleld at this time? Mr. McCARTHY. I yield. Mr. MUNDT. I hope the Senator will é not follow the suggestion of the Senator from Connecticut and discontinue his ef- fort to purge Communists from the Gov- ernment. ‘Mr. McMAHON. Mr. President, the Senator from Connecticut made no such statement. # Mr. MUNDT. The Senstor should wait until I finish. Mr. WHERRY. Mr. President, I de- mand the regular order. The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from Wisconsin-has the floor. A Senator who has the floor can Field only See Wait fia fese SSMS Rast for a question. Senators who wish to ask questions must first be yielded to for that purpose. Mr. McCARTHY. Mr. President, may I frst make ft clear that I will yield to every Senator present, as often as he wants me to yield, but for the present Tam yielding to the Senator from South Dakota, and I will yleld to no one else until he has finished his question. I shall be glad then to yield to the Senator from Connecticut. Mr. MUNDT. I want the Senator from Connecticut to Msten to this statement. I think Iam quoting him exactly. I think he suggested that the Senator from Wis- consin shotld not continue with this ef- fort of his, until the full files are made avaliable to him. As not that correct? Was not inat the Senator's statement? Mr. McMAHON. That is exactly cor- rect. Mr. MUNDT. I thought it was cor- . rect. Mr. McMAHON. It is. Mr. MUNDT. I bope the Senator from Wisconsin will not yield to that kind of argument, because, had the argument of the Senator from Connecticut been fol- lowed, Alger Hiss would never have been convicted, for Alger Hiss was convicted after the President gave his freeze order wiaht «+ = #he 62:11 Al. denying us the right to see the full file. That would be a complete way to cover up every Communist in the Government. Mr. McMAHON. Mr. President, will the Senator yield? Mr. McCARTHY. Let me answer first, and then I will yleld. I say to Ben- ators, let them take their time. I wil yleid to everyone here, and al! night if necessary. I want to say J definitely will not follow the suggestion offered by the Benator from Connecticut thet I do noth- ing until I have the complete file of the fase, The President said “You shall not see the file.” In fact, I never know when I have the complete file. I have infor- 2059 mation from the State Department files, information to which we are entitied. Zam giving it to the Senate. The Senator from Connecticut has said something about my convicting someone. Although even the jeader of the Sena- tor's party has said, “You must give us the names,” I have refused to do so. I have said, “I will give {t to any commit. tee. I will go before any committee. I will be sworn. I will do anything.” 1 want to get some action, and I may say to the Senator, T think he ie tha typ. of man who should be working | along with me on this matter. I have a great deal of respect for the Senator from Connecticut. Mr. McMAHON. Mr. President, will the Senator yield for » question? Mr. MOCARTHY. I yieid. . Mr. McMAHON. I am not trying to work against the Senator. What did I point out to the Senator and to the Benate? I pointed out that the Senator apparently has been giving the deroga- tery information contained. in files of which he has secured possession. I fur- ther pointed out that in those files, if there was information which disproved the derogatory information, it was the duty of the Senator to present it to the Senate. Certainly no investigation of these persons could be consistent with American methods unless there were an evaluation both of the derogatory in- formation and the information which went to disprove it. If we adopt any ether theory than that, I claim we aban- don one of the fundamental guaranties which underly our form of government. And if We are going to take the attitude that simply because someone says s0- and-so is a Communist, or waz seen talk- ing to a Communist, it therefore, ipso facto, settles the matter, then I say we have adopted a theory which I do not understand to be in consonance with our form of government. Mr. WMcCARTHY. I thank the Senator. Mr. McMAHON. I want to further point out to the Senator that, in fair- nea Mr. McCARTHY. Is this a question? Mr, McMAHON. The Senstor has Ustened to speeches from some of his other colleagues. T am sure he will in- dulge me in this observation. Mr. McCARTHY. Go ahead. Mr. McMAHON. I thank the Sena- tor. If he wanis to be fair, and bas fu!l and complete files on a man, he ought to read not only the derogatory informa- tion but anything else that is said. After it is read I might agree, especially a he tn if I could hear the witmesses, with the Senator's contention that a certain individual cought to be kicked out of the Government and perhaps be put in jail. What I do not see is how anyone can form an intelligent judgment simply by reading what a half dozen people say, because perhaps they are rogues, scoun- Grels, and thieves. Perhaps they have some ulterior motive in making the state- ments they do. I do not Know, I do not judge this case and say the Senator is not right, that the Senator does not have derogatory information, which, if true, would Warrant the full ‘penalty of the law. He may be entirely right about