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2 Ee Ee ER, as ee , tion. 2060 it. What I am pointing out is that there may be other facts which we ought to hear in connettion with those cases. That is my point. Mr. McCARTHY. I think the Senator fiatters me when he gevs it is my duty to present the entire file to the Senate “and to give the Senate al! the informa- The President has saki we shall not get that file, and, as of the present moment, we are not on a “Der Joe, Dear Harry” basis. I cannot go to the White Bouse and say, “Harry, give me this fle, besause Senator McManow insists that you give me the information.” A‘! I can do is to give Senators what I can dig up. I bave given Senators the fuller:, most oomplete, fairest résumé of the files that I possibly could. For the Senator to speculate that I have other information which I will not give him, is, I think, completely unfair. I bave already asked for the complete files. I sent the President a telegram. Taaid, “Mr. President, here are 57 names. You may have them But, in fairness to the Senate and the countrys, let ws get the information on these people.” the Senator yield? Mr. McCARTHY. Let me yield to the Senator from Maine, first. Mr. BREWSTER. Is the issue not as to who is to do the evaluating of which the Senstor from Connecticut speaks? Is it to be done by the executive agen- ¢eies that demonstrate In every way & determination to refuse what has always been considered the constitutional right of the legislative body to find out, or is the evaluation to be made in the historic method, by a duly authorized cammittee of the Senate? I do not understand that the Senator from Connecticut is denying the right of a senatorial group, por do I understand him to be admitting it. I am very much interested to know whether he agrees with the executive viewpoint, asserted for the first time, so far as I know, in any substantial way in very recent years, that the executive . would not give to committees of the Con- grees the right to look at files. The first case ] knew of was when, during the war, President Roosevelt re- fused Senator Truman, then chased, of the Truman committee, the right to examine the so-called Stettinius report. The first action which I took as chalr- man of the committee afterward Was to ask President Truman for it. and he turned that report over, which conclu- ' gively demonstrated that we had been very much misied during the course of the war as to the mobilization, and the ’ records thereof. demonstrating that Senator Truman was right tn demanding the records, and the President was wrong. The new doctrine by which the President has now directed his subor- dinates to refuse records is novel, unfor- tunate, and menacing, and is at the very - essence of this entire issue, As I under- stand, the Senator from Wisconsin 1s presenting what he feels to be credible evidence that the Executive ls not exer- eising due care. We have no other way, as I understand. to find out, unless some committee will demand the records, and unless the President will release them. CONGheSSIONAL RECORD--SENATEC How the Senator from Connecticut, him- self, as chairman of the Atomic Energy Committee, could determine regarding many matters, unless he had the files from the executive department, !t is im- posefble for the Senator from Maine tao understand. Mr. McMAHON. Mr. President, will the Senator yield at that point? Mr. MCCARTHY. Let me answer the Question first, if I may. I thank the Sen- ator from ne very much for his state- ment. He i§ 100 percent correct. Uniless We can obtain cooperation from the Ex- ecutive, there is no Way in the world of cleaning house. I am not giving my evalution of the evidence, I want it un- derstood. If Senators will listen, they will note that what I am doing is to re- elite the facts, which the State Depart-- ment’s own security agency dug up, and which information acted as the basis for their recommendation that the individ- uals in question, because of being secu- rity risks, be discharged and not re- tained in the service. J know the Senator from Connecticut has not been present all the time. He _ as been away thisevening, Some of the most incredible cases I bave read and some that I shall read of giving a man top secrecy clearance, when the Depart- ment's own agency says “He is a bad risk; he is a Communist,” have been un- covered. I may say to the Senator, if the investigative agency is overly eager, Hf they are doing s bad job, tf they are per- secuting individuals, if they are naming as Communists individuals who are not such, then it is up to the Btate Depart- ment and the President to get a new agency. Mr. FERGUSON. Mr. President, will the Benator yield? Mr. McMAHON. Mr. President, will the Senator yield for a moment, that I nay make e# final observation? Mr. McCARTHY. Yes, I shall be glad to yield; and after that I will yield to the Senator from Michigan. Mr. McMAHON. It will only take me @ minute. I understand the junior Sen- ator from Massachusetts earlier said that at the next meeting of the Foreign Rela- tions Committee he would move for an examination of these cases. I may say to the Senator, I shall be glad to second and to support the motion, because I - ghouid like to see developed not only the facts the Senator has been able to get, but also other facts that we as a com- mittee may be able to develop. I should like to see that done. It would be quite all right with me, but I again emphasize, as I now take my seat—and I shal) not participate in the debate again, so far as I know, and I shall not disturb the Senator further—that perhaps it would have been better had the Genator pre- sented his complaint to the Committee on Forelgn Relations of the Senate, in which committee I am sure be has full tonfidence, in order that the derogatory information might be weighed against any information which would tend to coutradict it, so that we could have the benefit of that searching information be- fore the Senator decided to come to the Senate floor with it. It is simply a per- tonal observation. The Senator is with. in his rights. He bas decided to do it *yelation to it. FEBRUARY 20 differently. Tt iz the Senator's responsi was some possibility of accomplishing the desired results in that fashion. However, keeping in mind that the members of the Foreign Relations Committee and aJ] the Senators have had substantially the same knowledge and opportunity that I have you the fnformation.” leader of the Democratic Party, before seeing any of the evidence, made a speech in Chicago and ssid, “What the Senator from Wisconsin says is all untrue,” I thought the only thing to do was what I have done, namely, to Jet the people of the country know what 18 going on, and then hope that the pressure of publie opinion would be great enough to force the President to clean house. Prankly, I think he will not clean house until he de- termuines it is politically inezpedient for him to do otherwise, I think the Presi- - dent is one of the cleverest politicians this Nation has ever had. I think when he discovers that the people of the coun- try do not want a continuation of what _ is going on, there will be a housecleaning. I shall be glad to yield to the Senator from Michigan. Mr. FERGUSON. Is the Senator familiar with the rule as laid dewn by the President that not only will he not permit any Member cf the Congress or a@ congressional] committee to have access to loyalty files, but that he will not per- mit the person in charge of them to tes- tify before a committee as to any facts relating to a person's loyalty? That was true in the Remington case, in which he told an admiral of the Navy, who had charge of one of the files con- taining disloyalty information, that the admira! was not permitted to testify in Is the Senator familiar with that? Mr. FERGUSON. Therefore, it seems impossible for the committee which might be named to be successful unless the President of the United States should change his order. Does not the Senator feel that the proper committee to in- vestigate the matter is the Appropria- tions Committee, which bas to appro- priate the money to pay those persons? The State Department's appropriation is now before that committee. I under- stand that Mr. Acheson will appear be- fore the committee. That will be the Place for the Senate actually to obtain information on those particular persons, not only as to whether they are now in_ Government employ, but information as to the entire record of the State Depart- ment, the FHI, and other departments as to their loyalty. Mr. McCARTHY. I will say that any committee that looks Into the matter