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2064 mission —I do not know the name of It— whi-:h odvises the State Department on UNESCO. Bo wish the Senator from Tincis would not plead ignorance of that. He knows it. went over all this for the Senate earlier today. Mr. LUCAS. Mr. President, will the Benstor yield? Mr. McCARTHY. Yes, Tm glad to yield. Mr, LUCAS. The only reason I ask ‘about these four is that it is my under- standing the Senator did name them in h‘s speech at Reno, Nev., and that the Senator said definitely—and I am now quoting only from the newspapers, and that is all J have been able to find out other than what the Senator has said tonight—in reply to a question by a reporter if he called these people traitors, he said, “I did not. I did not call them Communists either,” Is that what the Senator said? Mr. McCARTHY. If the Senator Wants to argue about the four, I will say. so that his mind will be at ease, that if he Wants me to make it 59 instead of 57 T shall be glad to include two igdividuals who were named, one by the FBI and the other by the Un-American Activities Committee as being a courler for the Communist Party. ; I do not get the Senator's argument. Does he say these people are Bimon pure and that I maligned them? I talked about them publicly. If anything I said was not true, they can sue me for libel and slander. If it wil) make the Sen- ator happy, I will be glad to say that all of thém except Service are part of the 57. The only reason I do not include Service is because his file has disappeared, and I am trying to confine myself solely to in- formation which is confined by the State Department's own investigative agency. Mr. LUCAS. Mr. President, will the Benator yield? Mr. McCARTHY. I sield. Mr. LUCAS. I do not have any quar- rel with what the Senator says. The only thing I am trying to do is to recon- elie the Senator's speech here with the speech reported in the newspapers, and Thave not received a satisfactory answer. Mr. McCARTHY. What would the Senator Hke to know? Mr. LUCAS. I should lke to know how he reconciles what he has said in the speeches he has made at Republican rallies with what he is saying here to- night. In other words, he named four persons when he was in the West. I agree with the Senator from Kentucky that the sooner the Senator can name these persons, the better off we wil! all be. 68o far as I am concerned, it will not be in executive session. If I have any- thing to say about it, it will be in the open, where every Individual in America, every newspaperman ean attend, so that they will know definitely, as son as pos- sible, just who is being charged and who is not being charged WKH being Com- munists. That is only fair, as the Sena- tor from Eentucky has so ably pointed out, because every individual in the State Department tonight is under a cloud, he is under @ shadow as the resuit of what the Senator from Wisconsin is doing. I Want to get the honest-to-goodness Americans from under that shadow, and . CONGRESSIONAL RECORD—SENATE whatever Communists are there, the ma- jority party on this side of the aisie will be found to be just as strong in demand- ing that we clean house, ff the Senator has the proof, as is anyone else, The senator does not need to worry about But the Senator has been moving around here—. Mr. McCQRTHY. I ask the Senator to walt a minute, please: I do not yield any further at this time. The Senator from Dlinois says it is my job to prove these things. Since when has it been the job of a Senator who is a member of the minority, Mr. President, to clean house for an executive depart- ment? That is the task of the majority, and I hope they take that task on their shoulders. Nothing the Benator from Dlinois has done here tonight indicates that he even remotely realizes the seriousness of this probiem. Mr. LUCAS. Mr. President, f the Senator will yield, let me sey that when he makes that statement, he simply does not know what he ts talking about. I appreciate the seriousness of the situa- tion the Senator is discussing. No one understands it better than the Senator from Dlinols and the country as a whole do, as a result of the speeches the Sen- stor from Wisconsin has made upon this question. If the Senator thinks therf is anything frivolous about this, or that we are not trying to cooperate with him in this matter, he simply does not under- stand the situation. We are going to help get the facts, and the Benator from Wisconsin is going to help us get the facts. He says he has the evidence there. All that needs to be done is for the Senator to come forward, along with the persons in the Intelligence De- partment from whom he has been able to get the information in the State De- partment. We will have them here. The Senator will have to tell us that, of course, and we will ferret this out, from top to bottom. Mr. McCARTHY. Do I correctly un- derstand that the Senator from Llinols now demands that the President allow the State Department to bring to a Ben- ate committee all the information in the files on these individuals? Or does the Senator feel that that should be kept secret, and that it is my job to probe be- hind the tron curtain and get the in- formation? Mr. LUCAS. The Senator from Wis- consin has already been behind the iron curtain. Mr. McCARTHY. The Senator from Tiinois says it is my task to get the in- formation. Does not he realize that is the task of the majority party and the majority leader? Does not he agree with me that the President should sey to fhe Congress, in ell honesty and fairness, “Here is a serious situation. I will open the files and let the proper committee eXamine them and learn what the facts are”? Mr, LUCAS. That is the old argu- ment which has been advanced ever since the dsys of John Marshal] in respect to controversies between the executive and legislative branches of Government 7e- lating to the opening of the files. We C FEBRUARY 20 have had that question over and over again. Mr. MoCARTHY. Mr. President, I de- eline to yield further. he Bens tor decline to yield to any Sen- a Mr. McCARTHY. No: I simply do not Wish to prolong what is completely potut- less on the part of the“Senator from Dinols. Mr. LUCAS. The whole evening has been rather pointless. Mr. LEHMAN. Mr. President, will the Benator yield? Mr. McCARTHY. I yield. Mr. LEHMAN. I understood the Sen- ator to say, in referring to two men, that they walked like Communists, looked like Communists, and talked like Com- munists. I think if we could spot Com- munists by their looks-—— Mr, McCARTHY. Mr. President, tf the Senator from New York is asking a question, I yield: otherwise I do not yield. Mr. LEHMAN. I will come to the question in a moment, -I think that if we could spot Commu- nists by the manner in which they walk, our task in fighting communism would be far simpler than It is. I would very much appreciate it if the Senator would tell us—and he would make a real contribution if he would— how he could spot any man as being a Communist, by his looks or by his walk. if be can do that, he certainly must have . powers of perception which go far be- yond anything known in human history. Mr. McCARTHY. Mr. President, let me say to the Senator that J think it ts &@ great mistake to take something that is in a figurative sense. The ‘Senator lke- wise knows that if I ssy a man looks like'a Communist, walks like a Commu- Nist, and talks lke 2 Communist I mean that if a man associates with Commu- mists and talks as Communists do and fa very friendly with Communists, praises communism, attacks and belitties Amer- fean democracy, joins Communist-front organizations, contributes money to them, and praises the Russian Commu- nist system above our own, be probably is a Communist. Mr. LEHMAN. Mr. President, let me observe—— _Mr. WHERRY. Mr. President, I call for the regular order. Mr. McCARTHY. Mr. President, T think I should let the Senator from New York observe what he has in mind. Mr, LEHMAN. I wish to point out that the Senator's answer certainly is not responsive to my question. He tried to identify these men as Communists—end they may be Communists—because, as he described them, they walk like Commu-- =~ filsts, they look Hike Communists, and they talk Uke Communists. That is an fasue that is not new in politics. The ac- Cusation is made by the Senator—— Mr. McCARTHY. Mr. President. let me make clear that J have not seen them physically walk; I have not iooked upon